Ivy Slater | Why Succession Planning Is a Growth Strategy, Not a Retirement Issue

Elise Holzman: Hi everyone, it's Elise Holtzman here, a former practicing lawyer and the host of The Lawyer’s Edge podcast. Welcome back for another episode. Most law firm leaders and rainmakers know they need a succession plan, but most of them don't have one. The reason isn't laziness. More often than not, it's that succession planning carries an end-of-career stigma, or discomfort that makes it feel like a conversation for later, or perhaps never. Today's guest disagrees with that framing and believes that succession planning is one of the most powerful growth strategies a firm can deploy, regardless of its leader's age or stage. In today's episode, we're going to reframe succession planning entirely and talk about what happens, when firms stop treating it as an ending and start treating it as a strategy for growth. Before we dive in, today's episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer's Edge, a training and coaching firm, which has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of The Lawyer's Edge coaching team is a trained, certified and experienced professional coach and either a former practicing attorney, or a former law firm marketing and business development professional. Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, just email the team at hello@thelawyersedge.com.

I am delighted to welcome my guest today, Ivy Slater. Ivy is the CEO of Slater Success, a boutique coaching and consulting firm that works at the intersection of strategic growth and succession planning. Ivy brings real world business experience to this work. Before becoming a coaching consultant, she built and sold a seven-figure business in New York City and she has spent nearly two decades since working with C-suite leaders and leadership teams on the strategy, structure and leadership development required for sustainable growth, with a particular focus on the legal sector. She's a TEDx speaker, a bestselling author of three books, including her most recent, “The Best of the Best”, “Lead Boldly”, “Scale Rapidly”, “Create Your Legacy” and she's the host of the Her Success Story podcast. Ivy, welcome to The Lawyer’s Edge.

Ivy Slater: Elise, thank you for having me. I'm delighted to be here with you today.

Elise Holzman: I'm thrilled to talk to you, because this is a topic that, as you and I have discussed, is so important. So many law firm leaders somewhat understandably sweep it under the rug. And I know that this is something that you focus on deeply with your clients. So I'm excited to hear your perspective on it. As I mentioned earlier, a lot of firms treat strategic planning and succession planning as two completely separate conversations. And I know you see this over and over again. One is about growth, right? So they think strategic planning is about growth, which we, I think we can all agree on. And then they think of the other one as more about transition. Like what happens when someone retires, or what happens when someone's rainmaking perhaps slows down as they're getting more senior and maybe looking to retirement. You see them as one conversation. So why do you see them as one conversation? And what do you think a firm is missing, when they separate them?

Ivy Slater: If we're looking at strategic planning without succession planning, you're looking at growth, but you're looking in a short-term lens. And I don't think any person starts building a firm saying, I'll do this, I'll build this firm, I'm going to put all this energy here for a few years and then I'm just going to walk away. Succession planning integrated from the beginning, from the strategic lens, really puts a long-term growth strategy there. And then I'm just going to be, I'm just a practical person, it's how I roll, honestly. I so often look at people and say, just keep it simple, right, just keep things simple. What is the one simplest thing you could do right now? And I can give you a lot of dire examples, but let's give a fun one, Elise, OK? So you and I both won the lottery. You and I and all of our fantastic clients won the lottery. And this is what we won. An all expense paid trip around the world, literally private jet experience. You're asked to show up with your passport and literally just like any medication, like your truly, your nearest and dearest toiletries kind of things, right? The things you really are attached to. Just a little carry on, everything else is provided. You're going to be shopping, you're going to get everything you need. Dot, dot, dot, here's the asterisk on the bottom of that announcement. You get to show up at the private airstrip tomorrow morning at 9 am. Is your firm ready for you to exit at 9 o'clock tomorrow morning? Even just for the year. Because we live long enough to know life happens. And life happens at life's timeline, not always at ours. So we want a firm that is solid, that has a long-term plan, with us in it and out of it. So I have a client who's like, I'm going to take a month off. I'm like, great, we can figure that out. How many managing partners, how many CEOs, how many lawyers want to say, hey, I want to take a month off. I don't see how I could ever do that. Why not? I took three weeks off last year, in a row, that was in addition to everything else, right? Our companies are meant to last. And building something that's sustainable is the integration of the succession with the strategy.

Elise Holtzman: Well, and one of the things that we know about many lawyers, not all of them, but there's definitely a lawyer personality, is that we have a very hard time thinking and believing that somebody else can take over for us. You know, if I want something done right, I have to do it myself. And so I wonder, you know, from your perspective, how much of this is ego versus how much this is fear in some way of, you know, retiring, or being irrelevant or whatever it may be.

Ivy Slater: I think you're hitting really good adjectives, I have to tell you, because our ego is definitely involved. As lawyers move up through the firm, right, we start developing our own books of business. We start taking on more other responsibilities, we become important. But succession planning makes us look in the face and says, what if I took a three weeks vacation? Who is good enough? How would that look? Will I be valued when I come back? What if I become like I'm literally creating my exit, right, by showing them that I'm not as important. So the ego is sitting there. And where the ego sits is our fear is showing up big time. It's like, what could happen? Yet, interestingly enough, a client of mine, he's not an older man, he's literally, you know, in a great midlife place, a daughter still in high school, you know, like beautiful time of their life. They should be doing more traveling, had a great trip planned this summer. And this winter he had difficulty with the health situation and quickly, the doctor's like, you need to get a lot of rest, that's part of this. And I got the call and saying, what are we going to do? And literally, this happened, I was supposed to be flying out to be in their offices like five days later. And he's like, don't come. I have to be at doctors, this, that, and the other thing. And I was like, take a breath, I won't come. And the day I was supposed to be in their offices, I spent a half a day virtually with their operations lead. And we went through systems and how things were going to be handled and gave her the support and the confidence to step in and start handling things. Navigated this beautifully, I have to say and you know, knock on wood, a thousand times, health is doing wonderfully. But I got a text like a month later, I was like, you know, Ivy, if we hadn't done this work, my firm wouldn't be clear. Because he didn't get a month ramp-up or 6 months ramp-up or 3 months ramp-up as we plan to go on a vacation, right? We could plan, and life happens. So when we look at it, if we move our egos out of the way and say, we're looking at building a fantastic firm, What does this firm need with me in this seat? And if I take a step out of the seat, even for a few days, how does the firm function? How can I start testing it? Who am I looking at developing? What, where are we going next? And that's where it sits as part of the growth strategy is the development of great leaders in this way and delegating and sharing responsibility as opposed to owning all the responsibility.

Elise Holtzman: One of the things I think I hear you saying is that succession planning is about more than simply identifying the people that you think are going to wind up taking over at some point. It is about developing them as leaders and rainmakers and taking an active role in doing that, right? They're not going to kind of spring from the ground fully formed as rainmakers and leaders. What are some of the things that you think that law firm leaders need to be doing, when we say succession planning? What does that look like? What do we mean?

Ivy Slater: Know where your talent is and know your talent, meaning your people's strengths. We all have different strengths. You know, you and I have so many things in common as women, yet we both have different strengths. You know, maybe one of us likes to cook and one of us likes to bake, just different things. One of us likes to garden and one of us likes to do, you know, a different hobby. Does not matter, right? We all have strengths. It's knowing what your people's strengths are. Some people are really good with people. And guess what? Some people are really not. And that's okay. Know who your people are. Know your people, even if they're young, if they have a lovely personality and a really good dedication, start bringing them into meeting clients at a young age, right? Start developing their people skills, their interpersonal communication skills, guide them. Yes, maybe they'll stay, maybe they'll go. The gift you're giving forward will come back to you tenfold, in putting the time and energy in. Some people are great with numbers. Some people are great with marketing. Know who your numbers people are, start giving them the data that they need to understand in everything, right? And then know who… people might have taken a lot of marketing classes, or just have a natural tendency or had a career before this. But if they have knowledge, what would that look like? Gain their insight. Include them in some of those meetings as a leader. See what they're bringing to the table and say, gee, this person has really great gifts here, as you develop a ton of Rainmakers. We think extroverts make great rainmakers. I think introverts make the best rainmakers there are. Introverts are amazing rainmakers, because they're not looking to have the light on them. They're looking to truly uncover the information with potential clients that brings clients in closer and closer. Look at your people at all ages. Look at your 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s.

Elise Holtzman: I'm sure you've heard this same objection, which I hear over and over again, something along the lines of, I know I should invest in my people, but I also don't always want to invest in my people, because people leave, right? And so if I put all my energy into these people and they leave, what's the point? I have my own take on that, which is, yes, some people are going to leave, but what's the alternative? Number one. And number two, the more you invest in people, the more you include them in opportunities and decision-making and client contact and understanding the economics of the firm and how law firms grow, the more likely they are to stay, because people stay because they feel included and they feel like they're part of something. I'm curious what you think about that. And if you've heard lawyers say that sort of thing, like, yeah, okay, I get it, but we just need to get the work out of them and they're going to wind up leaving us anyway.

Ivy Slater: All the time we hear, you know, what's the point, they're young, they're going to leave. They're going to have like three more jobs, like… and then the leader is like, I don't have the energy to do that. Because they feel, honestly, a little bereft that somebody is leaving them. In a crazy word there, but it's true.

Elise Holtzman: Yeah, that’s true. They feel abandoned and they feel betrayed, partly because they, in the older generation that you and I are a part of, we typically stayed longer. We made our bed and sort of stayed in it for part of a career, a big part of a career, or an entire career. And so I think that there is a sense of betrayal there.

Ivy Slater: I'll share this story. I'll share this story as a personal story. Back in my old company and I'm going back, you know we had… I spearheaded a merger creating a $3.5 million business back in my early 30s. That merger lasted just shy of five years and blew up. All the legal documents were done very well and handled well. And when it blew up, it was very efficient. And then now I was a mother with two young kids, a two and a five-year-old and it's like, I need help. I need to restructure something, I need to recreate something. And I connected with somebody I knew in my industry for a long time and we created a crazy, crazy partnership that was a very unofficial partnership. No lawyers would bless this and somehow it worked. And I'm going to tell you, it worked, because our values were aligned. Our values were based on family first with financial success, okay, but it was always family first. A dozen years in, everything ran beautifully until I said, I don't see myself dying a printer. I need to figure something else out in my life. I don't know what it's going to look like, but we need to figure out. And we took literally, we were in New York City, our office was on 36th between 8th and 9th, and we walked from 9th Avenue and 36th Street up to 9th Avenue and 57th Street and back. And in that time, because I'm a big, big fan of when you feel stuck, you move, right? You take a walk, you get out and you get some fresh air, you take a walk. And by the time we were walking back, we had a concept of what a transition plan was going to look like that then we had to figure out. Now, this person I saw last weekend, I see them all the time. I speak to them several mornings a week, we became best friends over that time. Neither of us look at that period of time of I abandoned the company, or I abandoned him. What we created was an amazing culture with amazing business that supported our families in beautiful ways. And we still have an amazing relationship like brother and sister today, because we built a foundation. Now, is that common? I'm not going to say it's common yet. When we put energy into mentoring, we're actually creating long-term possibilities as well. Because if, as people leave and they experience culture and companies in other fashions, it's not surprising for them to come back to a firm that has gifted them the ability to grow and develop. It's not surprising that as these firms grow and develop and maybe this other lawyer goes out and starts a small firm on their own, that they then go back and are acquired by that big firm. Because the respect and culture keeps the relationships going if people are smart, or as people are smart, we keep the relationships going no matter what. And there's interconnections, interrelationships from client opportunities, business opportunities, speaking opportunities and mergers and acquisitions that is part of that long-term legacy that's created within a brand.

Elise Holtzman: What you're talking about is so important, because it's about investing in relationships. And it's something actually that the younger generations are very good at doing and they care deeply about. Whereas in prior generations, not that things were purely transactional, right? They weren't, people invested in those relationships too. But this generation, more than ever, wants to be invested in. They want to learn, they want to grow, they like to be part of the conversation. So I think it's important that you're highlighting this. You also talk about the hard facts, right? The numbers. So you have a phrase that I know you use with clients, which is that numbers tell a story. What should firm leaders actually be looking at and what does it tell them about whether they're positioned for sustainable growth?

Ivy Slater: Numbers do tell a story and I can't encourage people enough. Think of it as a storybook as opposed to a P&L sheet. Your numbers telling a story is everything from, if we look at your sweet spot in rainmaking, networking and follow-up. Are we truly building relationships? Are we staying in touch with people? How often are we getting out, right? If we look at that piece, those numbers tell a story. Where are clients actually coming from next? What else should I put in? Read those numbers. Read the numbers in your financials. And it's not just about where you're spending money, it's about where things are shifting. Everybody's saying, ah, everything has gotten more expensive. Well, what does everything look like? I tell my clients twice a year, do yourself a favor, look at your credit cards you put all your subscriptions on, because they creep. Some have like, you know, they're like, they just creep up. Look at that analysis. Pay attention to the details and the numbers. Look at referral numbers, right? Conversion rates. Look at team, what is your staying and leaving? Everybody, you know, they stay three years and they're out. What does that look like? Why does that… All the numbers, from your finance to your marketing to your sales, your networking, your people, there's numbers everywhere.

Elise Holtzman: Well, right and it's not just what we shouldn't be doing, it's what we should be doing, like what's working and let's do more of that. You know, if we figure out what the 80%, you know, the 80-20 rule, if we figure out what the 80% is that's working, let's forget the 20% or at least, you know, decrease what we're doing there and put more effort into what's working for the 80%.

Ivy Slater: I start every call with every client and it's shocking, because they still like get a little stumped by the question. With this one question, share a success. And it's not that I want you to… you know, yes, it's great that you feel good that, you know, here's a success, big or small and I don't care the size of it. Yet what's interesting is exactly what you're saying, Elise, it's when we focus and expand on what is working, versus fall into the sinkhole of what is not, we have a better scalability. Because what's working expands, take that expansion. We can and we will, course correct and tweak what might need some adjustment. But when we continue to focus on what is working, what is helping this firm grow in success, we have actionable items. And I'll say a thousand times, it's not about the giant step. It's about the consistent baby steps. You know, the turtle versus the hare. The turtle wins every time.

Elise Holtzman: You and I often get called in, when firms are a little stuck on something, right? They want growth, they're not really seeing necessarily where the challenges are, or they see where the challenges are and they're not really sure what to do about it. Where do you think the breakdown usually comes, when it comes to a law firm trying to grow? If they're getting stuck, what's happening often?

Ivy Slater: They very often can't get out of their own way. So having that outside perspective is really helpful. Leaders of law firms are incredibly, incredibly smart people. They don't always see the law firm as the business. They see it as the law firm. So one of the things I see happen is when we're like, okay, we're going to do a business analysis. They're like, you know, Ivy, this is a law firm. I'm like, yeah and it's a business. And I'll say one of the biggest disconnects often in leadership is they've been so focused on growing a law firm that they don't put the business components in place that help every business, including law firm scale. And we look at doing an analysis of your marketing strategy, your sales strategy, your people, your financials. Those are, to me, the four wheels on a great car. Elise, do you have a favorite car? Because my favorite car is a Bug, you know, the Volkswagen Bug convertible from 20, 30, 40 years ago, I think that's the hottest car around.

Elise Holtzman: That's funny. I love those cars. They're so cute. You don't see them as much anymore, unfortunately, but they're great cars. But yeah, there's certain basics that law firms need to focus on, when they want to operate as a business. And, you know, it really has been a mindset shift that I think that, you know, younger people may not see as much, because when I first started practicing law, there was no such thing as marketing. I mean, you didn't have a marketing department. The world has changed dramatically. And while it's still a profession, right, and we have certain ethical responsibilities and we want to have it be seen as a profession, it really is a business. And it is a mindset shift for people to get there. I'm curious about another mindset shift that needs to happen that I kind of mentioned in the intro to this episode, which is that succession planning still carries this end of career type of stigma in a lot of law firms. It's like it's the conversation nobody wants to have until they have to, or maybe they don't even feel like they have to. They just exit stage left and hope that it all works out. So how do you go about helping people shift that mindset, Ivy? What does it look like, when a firm actually gets it right? And how can you help them get there?

Ivy Slater: It is a mindset perspective. And that's where I truly encourage leaders to see succession as part of their strategy, strategic plan. Bottom line, I exited my old company at 45. I haven't yet retired, right? I succession planned myself out. And last time I checked, I'm still working, right? I'm just doing more that I love and enjoy. So what if succession isn't about exiting, but it's about creating the space to have time to love and enjoy our lives and have the team that allows us to do that, to support us. I don't see retirement in my future, because I happen to love what I do. Yet I can say I'm traveling a little bit more. I'm planning an amazing trip for 2027. I don't know if anybody else in my family knows this yet, but I'm planning it. If we shift the language around succession and say, look at legacy. So in “Best of the Best” why did I shift that last word? Like lead boldly, scale rapidly, create your succession, create your legacy. Isn't it cool that if succession turns to legacy, that we're remembered for the imprint we make in our firm? Now, when I say remembered, that could be yesterday, it doesn't mean 10 years ago. So it doesn't mean I have to exit to leave a lasting legacy.

Elise Holtzman: It's such a simple terminology change and yet I already feel better about the whole thing. I mean, I agree with you on all of this.

Ivy Slater: It's like, you don't want to leave a legacy. Yeah, like that. You don't want to leave a legacy. I want to do that. That's important.

Elise Holtzman: Right. And that one word shift, I think, is remarkable in helping with that mindset shift. I mean, look, for people who have built something, whether you're the first generation of your law firm or a succeeding generation and you've built something, you want it to continue. I think there's something that stops people in their tracks, when the idea of, well, I'm just going to turn the lights off and walk away from this thing, happens. I think people want something that they've built and that they've put their blood, sweat and tears into to continue. And so I love that idea of calling it a legacy. What's the legacy you're going to leave rather than just talking about succession planning.

Ivy Slater: And I'm going to take this back to what we were saying before about the relationships we built in our careers. When we leave a lasting legacy, we're building relationships with an intention and meaning. So I have relationships from my early days that I still do coffee and drinks with a couple of times a year. And they have been amazing people in my life. Amazing businesses come from it, in a variety of ways, from referrals to this and that. Yet, because we're building a legacy, we want to keep these relationships. The legacy and the relationships are so intertwined, because it's the people that last. It's the people that last in our lives. It's not the deal, right? It's not the contract. It's not whatever the legal issue is, right? But it's the relationship. And we think about when we loop legacy in with relationship, you really have such a tight reason, you know, a smart reason to build a legacy.

Elise Holtzman: I'm just thinking about something a little more pedestrian than this, right? Because I love the idea of building a legacy. But I wanted to ask you about the managing partners who, and look, lawyers say this all the time. I mean, this is the biggest objection I get to engaging in business development activities, for example, is, Elise, you don't understand, I'm too busy. So for managing partners who say, no, no, no, I'm too busy. I don't have time to do this right now. Like, we'll get to it eventually. What do you think is the real cost of waiting, right? Right, I mean, sure, you know, the likelihood is that something horrible isn't going to happen and they're not going to be in the kind of situation that your client you mentioned is in. But what is the cost, when they just say, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm too busy for that stuff right now?

Ivy Slater: Honestly, the real cost of waiting is a life happens moments that things are decided for you without your input. You know, we see burnout at the top. We see plateau growth. We could go into all the business stuff. To me, the real cost of waiting is you've put your life effort, you've put an enormous amount of time, money and energy into building something of value and you're willing to turn your back on it in a moment's notice, it's like, would we do that to a child? And I think when we build businesses and again, a law firm is a business. Let's go back to that concept. Yet when we build businesses, it is raising a child. It is building it from infancy to toddler. They have their sea legs, they start walking. You have those funky adolescent years that you're trying to build that team and you're like, OK, let's have these puzzle peoples and going to fit together. And then all of a sudden, you see this firm that has thinkers and visions and you've grown it up. Would you turn your back on a child at any age? I mean, I have adult kids. Still, the phone rings, it's like, why are they calling me during the business day and their business day, right, I focus. Yet, when we look at our firm, we want that long term, wow, I look at my kids today and it's like, damn, I'm really proud of them. I'm really proud of what they're doing in their lives. I'm proud of the decisions they're making as adults. I want to look at my firm with the same pride.

Elise Holtzman: Even from a practical brass tacks kind of perspective, one of the things that I like to talk about with people is this idea that, look, we all have the same 24/7. So there are people out there who have engaged in the success and planning and are able to create the legacy. And so when we say I'm too busy, it's just that we're not prioritizing that. And it's not like something that I invented, but there's the Eisenhower matrix, Dwight D. Eisenhower used, when he was in the military, which shows us that we spend a lot of time working on things that are urgent, but they're not always super important. And this idea of leaving a legacy and doing the strategic planning and doing the succession planning is not only unbelievably important to your firm, critical to your firm, but also for, I think, for managing partners, the highest and best use of their time. You know, they don't have to be doing all the legal work. They don't have to be doing all the day-to-day management. There may be other people who can step into that. But when you're the managing partner, you know this Ivy, you're the one who is best situated to do this and that's your job.

Ivy Slater: And as managing partner, you have taken on the role of the visionary for the firm. And that really has to be considered, especially when you're looking to groom managing partners, right? When you're looking to bring up your leadership team, you want somebody to be your visionary or your firm is just going to be the firm that just does and stagnates. OK, so as the visionary in that managing partner role, you're looking at not just today, not 26 or 27, but you're looking at 2030, you're looking at 2035. What's your vision for that firm in 5 to 10 years? Are you expanding to other cities? Are you expanding other departments? Do you want to just grow in this niche and be one of the greatest known in this area of law? What is your vision? If you don't spend time and energy creating that vision and the plan and how that's going to be achieved. And the plan is going to have a financial structure, a people structure, it's going to have a structure to it. That creates a legacy when you do that. Because you're thinking forward, you're not just thinking present. And you're not thinking when I say present, it's not just today. Most people think present for a year or two. I want you to be thinking forward of five to 10 and where that vision is, where that car, right, let's go back to my badass little bug here, VW Bug with a convertible down and we're cruising down the road. That visionary is in the driver's seat, that's the fifth wheel.

Elise Holtzman: There is such a thing as a lawyer personality and research has demonstrated that. And part of the lawyer personality is not to be necessarily the visionary. We're sort of and I say we, because I fall into this category, very concrete thinkers. Like, what needs to get done today? What are we working on? What's happened in the past? All of that sort of thing. So it's really important to take the time and we're all capable of being visionaries, we just don't necessarily do that naturally. It's not what's most energizing for us. And so while that certainly doesn't apply to every managing partner, every law firm leader, it's something to be aware of, right, that as an industry, we're not the biggest visionaries in the world. But it's really important, as you say, to have that visionary, or to step into that side of us that's capable of being a visionary. And if we don't feel like that's a natural place for us to surround ourselves with people who are really good at that visionary thinking. And so I just want to throw out the Gino Wickman book “Rocket Fuel”, which talks about how visionaries and what he calls integrators can work together in businesses and have that be really powerful.

Ivy Slater: It's a great book and what he's done in his work is amazing. If you don't know yourself to be a visionary, bring in the outside help, bring in the outside help that prompts the questions and helps create the vision. And that, again, goes back to at least development, developing that side of ourselves. And then that integrator is that ops person, right, who not all attorneys are ops people. Know what you do well, bring in the support, that is a great leader. A great leader knows their strengths and knows to bring in the key support areas, whether you're bringing in a full-time, or a fractional CFO, whether you're bringing in a marketing department, sourcing out your marketing, a little bit of both, having a marketing assistant, whatever that's looking like, right? Know what you're doing and how you're doing it and where your strengths lie and reach for the resources. That's the… the managing partner's greatest strength is to know what they know well and to hire, delegate and learn, right? Doesn't mean we have to be experts at it. We just have to have a knowledge base to ask questions.

Elise Holtzman: I think you and I could talk about this all day, because we both get excited about this stuff. But we do have some limited time. So as we wind up here today, I'm going to ask you the same question I ask all of my guests at the end of the show. There's a phenomenon called the curse of knowledge, where experts sometimes forget that what is so obvious and natural to them is not at all obvious to others. When it comes to building a law firm that can grow and thrive beyond any one individual, what's a principle, or piece of advice that may seem obvious to you, but is really important for law firm leaders to hear?

Ivy Slater: Honestly, the one piece of advice is read the storybook of numbers within your law firm. Look at it as a storybook, so it's a little bit more attainable, versus a little bit more daunting and read the storybook of numbers. What does that information give you? Everywhere from your greatest clients to new clients, to your people, how long they stay, your finances, what's working in metrics in your marketing, your sales. Read the number story within your law firm and be the leader who embraces it.

Elise Holtzman: Fantastic. I love it. Ivy, thank you so much for being here today. It was a pleasure talking to you as always.

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In the meantime, be bold, take action, and make things happen. We'll see you next time.